SPEAKER_00 0:00

On this episode, what is the most effective approach to weight training, cardio, and fitness for women? Joining me to unpack this topic is Dr. Lauren Calenzo Semple, a science communicator with expertise in female physiology and exercise. She holds a PhD in integrative physiology and a master's in exercise science. Through her research, teaching, public speaking, and online platforms, Dr. Lauren is known for making complex topics accessible and for calling out the myths that hold women back from reaching their health and fitness goals. She's also a co-owner of the Mass Research Review, where she helps bridge the gap between cutting-edge research and practical fitness strategies. I'm Jake Panasevich, and this is the Yoga with Jake podcast. I'm doing well. Well, I'm I'm so thrilled to have this time with you. Thank you for coming on to speak with me today.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

I I was wondering if we could start. I'm curious how you got so interested in the field of women's health and fitness.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Well, I used to work as a personal trainer. And so I was really trying to optimize the results of my clients, some of which were men and some were women. And I was trying to follow, you know, the science behind the resistance training in my own, you know, athletic endeavors. And so I was curious at the time, you know, why there were so many studies in college-aged men and not so many studies in younger women. And ultimately I ended up volunteering in a lab for a while before I decided to go back to school and get a master's and subsequently a PhD. But what I discovered was the menstrual cycle was a kind of major limitation or perceived limitation to a lot of these researchers doing their work in female populations because the journals were kind of insisting on standardizing or tracking or um controlling for the menstrual cycle if you were to use a sample of women. And the scientists were kind of saying, you know, we're all it's already so much to coordinate to do one of these studies. Adding on all those layers of cycle tracking is sort of a study within a study. And so we're just going to study men.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Okay. And with that sort of gap in the field, um, it must have been disheartening as a woman, I imagine, to see that. But I'm assuming that was for what we thought was uh moral reasons. Um, but now where do we stand today with um that topic? Have we come uh what have we come to understand about studying women and their menstrual cycle?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Well, what I realized was if the this was based on so many assumptions that the menstrual cycle would matter or could matter, and no one had really done the work to dig in and decide, does it matter? And if so, to what extent? And so that was the basis for some of the science that I did, really looking at in a well-controlled way about how are we responding at the muscle level, at the physiological level to um training in these different cycle phases. And I found no difference. At this point, other research groups have done similar work reporting no difference. And so I think from what I described, my observation of the field was now that that would be 15 years ago. I think we're in a different place now where many of those studies that were originally conducted in younger men have since been replicated in middle-aged men and older men and younger women and older women. And so we do have a wealth of data at this point that we didn't have 10, 15, 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Okay. And what differences are there, if any, when looking at the different genders between male and female when it comes to fitness?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Well, physiologically, we adapt fairly similarly. Our starting point tends to be a little bit different. And so one of the most obvious ones is starting strength and starting muscle mass, meaning if you look at untrained adults, because the man went through puberty and they had that surge in testosterone, which is associated with an increase in muscle mass, your kind of starting point is a little bit different. However, that doesn't affect the practical nature of what's important or how we should train in order to facilitate some of those strength and hypertrophy adaptations. And the same would go for some kind of endurance type training as well. When you start out, you might say, oh, well, we'd notice some sex differences in fuel utilization, you know, using fat versus carbohydrates as fuel. But the more trained you get, the more those sex differences kind of start to disappear. And once again, the actual nuts and bolts of the training itself doesn't change. So the principles apply regardless of sex. Where I do think it's worth mentioning is the life stages and experiences that women go through that men do not. And so you'll have pregnancy, for example, in the postpartum period, you'll have the menopause transition. Um, some women experience really debilitating menstrual symptoms. There are also women who have um PMOS and endometriosis. And so I think all of those considerations are important, especially for those practitioners who are working with female clients in a way that it's not necessarily about doing things differently or sex-specific programming, but more from a lens of how do you support women in all these stages of life?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, with that in mind, how should one support, as someone who teaches the general public um fitness classes or I teach yoga, but also considering resistance training, how could we support women in their fitness journeys through all phases of life? When does it start? How and and how could we um, or how does should one adapt their training uh for women as they go through these different seasons of life?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

I think one thing we could all do a better job of is introducing more kind of structured exercise to girls at an earlier age. I know that's not something I was really exposed to. And that means that you have a lot of women who maybe they did some high school sport, but if they didn't, then they probably are entering sort of fitness, maybe for health reasons in midlife, maybe for weight loss at some point in their 20s or 30s, but they don't really have that same sort of baseline or background knowledge that you might get if you were a boy in high school who used the weight room. Like I know in my experience, um, there were never any girls in the weight room in my high school. So I think that kind of earlier exposure would be important because it really sets women up to be confused when they try to start entering into a fitness journey, whatever the goal is. We don't have a good sense of, okay, well, what's the right tool for the goal? How do we set ourselves up for success? And so I think what ends up happening is that so many women feel confused. And that is just a gold mine for you know fitness companies to come in or influencers to come in and kind of sell you something that may or may not be helpful.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Okay. Yeah, I had a very similar experience growing up in very rural America, Pennsylvania, and it was almost no women or girls in the weight room. And how how young is a safe age to uh introduce uh some education around strength training for women or girls, and and when could they safely start to um to exercise or strength train in the in the weight room?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

I think provided that you know we're approaching it safely and with a progressive, you know, appropriate volume that you would do with an adult, then we can start fairly young. And when you think about kids playing, they're already doing a lot of what we might consider resistance type exercise sessions. The problem is then they stop. And so you'll hear people say, oh, you know, women have such poor upper body strength. And that's not all women, because you see women who did gymnastics throughout their childhood or adolescence, they developed a lot of upper body strength that they can maintain throughout adulthood. But there seems to be this sort of disconnect where there's a lot of physical activity going on in childhood, and then for a lot of people that kind of drops off. So I don't think we should. I know there used to be um a sentiment that, oh, it was going to stunt your growth or that it would somehow be harmful for bone density. Um, we the the evidence really isn't supporting that. It it should, it it is safe, but it's more about kind of creating an environment where people can learn to do it and then safely and slowly progress over time.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Okay. I uh I wrestled my whole life from the time I was five years old into college. And there wasn't many, there was few and far between girls interested in in wrestling. Now it's the fastest growing youth women's sport, it's at least from what I've heard. And it's really heartening to see because these girls are strong. They're in the weight room. They're I just from what I see on social media and just in that sport specifically. And it's very heartening. I I think for me at least, it was the sport component that got me into the weight room for these performance type some goal, some aim. Um so I was um very heartened to see that uh the girls are on the the attendance of girls and girls uh specific wrestling has gotten these young women very interested in in strength training. And so um do you think getting women more involved in our sports culture earlier might help support women to uh to strength train?

SPEAKER_01 11:53

I do, but I think in some sports it's better now than it was, but I think historically you'd have girls and young women playing sports and they wouldn't actually get that same, you know, strength and conditioning aspect. Uh they would be training in so much a kind of sports-specific manner uh that that you're not focusing on on the building phase, which can not only help with performance, it can also help with injury prevention, you know, especially if you're doing something with like repeated cutting, like soccer. Um, then you know, having some balanced kind of leg strength can be really important and and kind of protective. So I think, yes, you know, getting into sports can help, but we also have many women now who maybe feel like, oh, well, that ship has sailed or it's too late for me. And so how do I start? And I think that's a lot of what I see are are women who know that building muscle is important, know that preserving bone is important. They might want to improve their body composition, improve their overall health, but it's difficult to know where to start.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Do we carry um for those who did start early on in life through strength training and maybe through sport, if they then maybe start a professional career and take time off, maybe an extended period of time, um, and then re-enter the fitness world, do they have an easier time adapting, having that history?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Anecdotally, people tend to say yes. It's unclear exactly why. Um, at you know, when we really dig into the physiology there, there were some sort of mechanisms that were explored and it's a little bit iffy. But I would say for sure, you once you've learned those movement patterns and once you've understood the kind of basics of how to progress them and what is challenging training, that's not something that you lose, even if you take some extended time off. And so all of the kind of skill development around the resistance training, or really any kind of movement pattern, you know, if you haven't ridden a bike for a long time and you get back on the bike and you can ride the bike. Um, things like that, I think we definitely retain. And I know people will anecdotally report that it took them this much time to put on muscle initially or put on strength initially. And then after a kind of period of time off, that regain is a shorter duration. It might be true, but if it is, I couldn't necessarily explain why.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Okay. Um, when it comes to strength training uh for for women, do how as far as details go, how should they approach uh training? I I go, I think it's the same with men and women. I think there's different social pressures depending on which one you're talking about. I think the idea goes straight to an aesthetic, like this fear of getting too bulky. Like even I myself have gone into back into uh weight training, and I'm like, oh, I really don't want to bulk up or gain muscle. I just want to tone. And and if I'm I'm curious, you how how should a women specifically approach uh resistance training based on their goals, um, whether that is an aesthetic or or just to get healthier and stronger?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Well, for overall health and you know, maintaining our physical function, maybe putting on a little bit of muscle size and strength, we actually need a very low dose. So even two 20 to 30 minute full body sessions is that sweet spot for health. You don't really need more than that. If you want to visibly change your physique through muscle growth, then we probably are going to need more than that over time. We just need more volume. We need to maybe work some muscle groups in isolation instead of just focusing on the compound exercises that target multiple muscle groups. But I don't think we should be too concerned about putting on tons and tons of muscle because that rarely happens unless you work really, really hard and you are kind of genetically predisposed to it. And then, you know, in the case of professional bodybuilders, often they'll have some kind of pharmacological help on board as well. When you say, you know, you use the word kind of toning, typically what people want is some visible muscle mass. And that will involve gaining muscle and losing a little bit of body fat. And so you'll hear people say, well, I could, I feel bigger, and it's that they put on the muscle, but what they really want is now to lose a little bit of body fat. Um, and you can do that potentially at the same time. This is what we would refer to as body recomposition, so simultaneously gaining muscle and losing fat. And the people who are most likely to experience that are people who are pretty new to training and or people that have a substantial amount of body fat to lose. If you've been training for a while and you're kind of on the normal weight or leaner side already, then we'd probably want to kind of prioritize the muscle growth for long enough to realize it, which will take months. And then we could focus on some fat loss, still lifting weights to try to preserve the muscle that we put on.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Okay. Would one expect to get less strong during that second phase? Like I'm always curious if I should be getting weaker or my lifts at least should be dropping or getting harder to lift that same capacity if I'm starting to attempt to lose body fat or or weight.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

So the goal should be to at least maintain your strength for as long as you can. So not being in a crazy calorie deficit where you feel like I have no energy and trying to lose the weight really, really quickly. We'd prefer to be in a more moderate, modest calorie deficit. So you're losing the body fat at a slower rate and really trying to focus on maintaining that muscle size and strength. But if you start to get really, really lean or if you lose a whole lot of weight, you will inevitably start to lose a little bit of that strength.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Okay. Um there's this maybe a misconception. I'm curious your opinion on it, that lifting heavier things, the heavier you lift, the greater risk of injury. There's, I'm assuming, some truth to this. Like if I were to pick up a paper clip off the floor compared to, you know, a 500-pound dump like deadlift, I imagine, you know, I always, in my mind, I think the benefit goes up the heavier you lift, however, the potential or risk potential also there's I feel like there's some sort of balance there that that might also go up. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Because I feel like that is a some something that both women and men struggle with, but I think specifically women are targeted in that, oh, you shouldn't be lifting so heavy, be careful, you might get injured. Part of me thinks that that's just a fear avoidance type of uh cycle happening or pushed on them. But what's your opinion on that?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah, you know, when you think about when injuries are more likely to occur, both outside of the gym, think of, you know, you're moving some furniture or something and you kind of twist and you pick something up awkwardly, and or you you pick something up without really thinking about how you're moving. That's often how injuries occur, or you know, you're in your car and you turn around to like reach something weirdly in the backseat. Um, so all those would be kind of examples of not really focusing on how we are moving. And so the same would go for inside the gym. When we aren't really focusing on our technique, then we're more likely to be injured. Or if we are lifting weight that we're not that confident we can lift well with proper form and it's, you know, our egos getting the best of us, then yes, I think injuries are more likely to happen as well. And you could argue that certain exercises tend to be more injurious than others, but it's really just about mastering the technique. You know, if you you can absolutely injure yourself doing a bicep curl, which is a very easy exercise to learn. Um, are you more likely to injure yourself trying to perform a heavy deadlift with poor technique? Probably. Um, and I so I think we need to make sure that we've mastered the technique before we focus on heavier and heavier and heavier. And we need to be smart about how we progress and the rate at which we progress. Because when we're newer, you'll see, oh, you know, every couple of weeks I can add more weight. But that kind of rate of progression doesn't last forever.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah. How should one govern their progression? Is it based on reps, based on perceived effort, based on when you're able to push to failure, all those things? How, how, how when you're looking At reps sets, how does one know when they're ready to progress, like maybe incrementally?

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah, I would use sort of a combination of those. So if you are doing a set of 10 and you finish that set and you know you could easily do another five or 10 or 20 more, then the weight you're using is way too light and you should pick up something heavier immediately. Um so we have to first understand that kind of proximity to failure. Failure meaning I couldn't possibly do another one with good form. Once we understand that, which in my view takes some time and kind of experimentation with pushing yourself to really make sure we're being honest with ourselves about could I do another one or two? Um, but once we have that knowledge base, then we would say, if I did a set of 10 last week and that's still feeling pretty challenging, maybe I can go for an 11th rep using the same weight. Or maybe we've been using the same weight for a while and we started with a set of 10 and then we pushed it to 11 and then to 12, and then maybe we're ready to try the same exercise back to that set of 10 or 8 with a heavier weight. So we can add load, we can add reps, and a lot of that should be kind of based on your own perception of how much you can push, which will vary from day to day and week to week, depending on a whole host of external factors, right? You know, not every workout is gonna feel like an A plus, and that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

And but one should be willing to go there if they want to see some results, right? That failure component is important.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yes. We need to get you know an appropriate stimulus. And as we improve, then our body has adapted to that stimulus, right? So that is us gaining strength and gaining muscle. But if we want more strength and more muscle, then we need to increase the stimulus.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Okay. And one shouldn't be fearful of the aesthetic potential result of bulky. I think that's kind of in the back of people's minds is that wow, I'm making all this progress, but also I don't want to look like a bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Again, you know, looking like a professional bodybuilder is very, very challenging. And think about how often you walk down the street and see somebody who's that muscular. It's it's pretty rare. Um, I mean, maybe depending on where you live, um, in certain gyms, there's more of a bodybuilding culture, but um, getting really, really huge takes a whole lot of time and effort. And nobody did that by accident. And a lot of people who are competing in professional bodybuilding are also taking on some performance enhancing drugs that are helping them put on that extra, you know, level of bulk that we, as people who are not using those drugs, would never achieve naturally.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Okay. You brought up several things that I feel yoga specifically has helped with. But I'm curious your for me personally, um, but I was curious your opinion on where things like a yoga or stretching have a role in uh in strength training. When you bring up things like self-awareness, perceived effort, pushing to failure, confidence in moving into different positions and awareness, like you brought up. Oh, when you turn awkwardly, are you kind of unconsciously? I know, gosh, in gym culture, there's a lot of just like I'm on my phone in between every set, or like head down into the screen while I kind of mindlessly push through the treadmill. I feel like yoga or things like yoga help at least give you some proprioception awareness, some uh self-awareness around how you're moving your body, your position, but also just I feel way more confident re-entering weight training, um kind of being comfortable in my body to move it in different ways or push that range of motion or the stretch within the lift itself. Um, is there anything to that, or am I just trying to push on the yoga button too hard?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Well, I would agree with you that you know generally speaking, strength training is not a very um mindful, I wouldn't put it in the mindfulness category. Yeah. And also I think that if we want to perform resistance training well, then we do need to understand how to move through a full range of motion. And so having that mobility and then putting it under load is important. If we don't have awareness of our body and space, which many people do not, if if they haven't exercised a ton or they they didn't do a sport that required that, or maybe something like dancing, where you are sort of aware of how to perform a hinge, for example. You know, it's really hard for to self-teach because it just doesn't feel like a natural movement pattern. And it can be really daunting for people to try to go into a gym and pick up some barbells or dumbbells when they really don't have that sense of kinesthetic awareness and how my body moves and where are my hips and shoulders. And so I do think that it's always helpful to have some of that as a background and a kind of knowledge base to not only improve how you will perform and what you can get out of the lifts themselves, but also just to boost the confidence.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Awesome. And with for I guess in general, but for women, do you suggest um I remember when I grew up there was this like sentiment that oh, free weights were more uh effective than using uh a weight machine? I've shifted my opinion on this as I've gotten like into my 40s here and starting the train strength train on my own um just at the gym that at least machines afford you some uh confidence and safety to push to that failure point, I feel. But is there anything between uh machines versus uh free weights? Are one more effective than the other for women or in general?

SPEAKER_01 29:09

No, there's actually a considerable amount of research on this, both in men and in women of all ages, and we see very, very similar muscle gain uh with free weights and machine, and also strength gains that translate. So, you know, if you're doing a leg press, it will translate to your performance on a squat. Now, if we want maximal strength, then of course we want to be training in a you know sports specific manner. And so if your goal is to compete in powerlifting or your goal is to really maximize your barbell deadlift strength, then you need to be doing the barbell deadlift for, you know, for optimal uh performance there. But I would say for the general population, for people who are prioritizing, you know, general fitness, overall muscle size and strength, then machines are an excellent option. And they're really good for beginners because, as you said, it kind of locks you into a position. And so that does facilitate, okay, I kind of know what to do here. I don't feel like my body's lost in space. And what we talked about earlier with getting comfortable with pushing closer to failure, machines are really easy to do that with because it's, you know, either the weight goes or it doesn't. And there isn't that fear of, am I gonna stand back up?

unknown 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Yeah, sure. I is there any must-do exercises, in your opinion, that one should absolutely hit um in their workouts throughout maybe the course of a week?

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Well, I would prioritize the major muscle groups. So I'd say I want you to do some sort of exercise that's going to work all the muscles of the back. That could be a uh a row variation, that could be a pull down or a pull-up variation. Then we'd want to work the muscles of the chest and shoulders in a pushing movement pattern. So we could do a bench press or a machine chest press or an overhead press with dumbbells or a machine or a barbell. It's really, I think about it as movement pattern more than exercise specific. So we would say, you know, I want that horizontal pulling movement or that row or that vertical pulling movement, the pull up, pull down, and then the horizontal and vertical pushing. So you're pushing weight away from you or you're pushing weight up to the ceiling. And that's gonna work all the muscles of the upper body because when you're when you're doing your pushing and pulling, your biceps and triceps are also assisting. So then you don't really need to do your bicep curls or tricep extensions. You can if you want to, but you are working the arms in those exercises as well. And then for the lower body, we'd want something that is a squat or a lunge type movement pattern. And so that we'd say it's knee dominant, meaning it we're working the quads or the thighs and also the glutes. And then the opposite of that would be a more hip dominant or a hinge type movement, where we could do something like a stiff leg deadlift or a good morning or a back extension or a cable pull-through, where we're working more the hamstrings and the glutes.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

And could one accomplish that by doing, say, maybe three exercises for the back coupled with three exercises for say the chest, and then do maybe the second day triceps and biceps, and then a third day legs, or I don't know. How many days in the gym do you suggest spacing these things out?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

So you can do it like that. We would call that you know a split routine, but you could you can also do a full body. So if you're working out two or three days a week, I would say do full body, you know, do some uh lunges, some overhead press, some rows, and maybe some glute bridges, and that's your 20-minute workout for the day, and we hit a lot of those major muscle groups. And then I'd have it'd be a different set of exercises for day two, but we're doing a full body workout. Now, if you're training four plus days per week, then we might want to start splitting that up. So we I might do an upper body day and a lower body day, upper body, lower body. If we're training five or six days a week, we could potentially split it up even further. Maybe we would do upper body pushing. So we do our bench press, our overhead press, our shoulder work, our triceps, and then we do upper body pulling. So I do my rows, my pull-ups, pull downs, some biceps, some rear delts, and then I do my legs. And so we call that push pull legs, and we could repeat that. And the reason to split it up further is it's very unlikely that you're going to feel recovered enough to train full body, you know, six days a week.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Okay. You have it. Do you have any opinions about kettlebells? I I go back to them for some reason because I just feel so darn good. It's almost like I go for a run, like I get like a runner's high after some of these complexes. They feel full body if you choose the right exercises. Um, do you have any opinions on kettlebells?

SPEAKER_01 34:39

So kettlebells can be used as resistance for resistance type exercises. So, you know, you could do a kettlebell deadlift or a kettlebell row, or we could do more kettlebell native exercises, which would be your swings or your cleans and snatches and things like that. So I would separate those in my mind because in the first scenario, you know, any resistance works. So, like we said, you can use free weights or machines or bands or cables. And I would put kettlebells in that bucket as well. You know, resistance is resistance, the muscle doesn't actually know the difference. For kettlebell work that is more kind of power-driven, where we're doing our swings, where we're doing our uh cleans or snatches, it's good. It's it's excellent for people who want to improve their fitness. You're getting your kind of cardiovascular system stimulated there as well. But those exercises are technically challenging. And so they're going to require making sure that you're using proper technique. And teaching new people how to perform those exercises can be really difficult because when you're doing a kettlebell uh swing, for example, you know, it really should be the hips doing the movement. And you'll see almost everyone kind of treat it like, oh, I'm doing a front raise. And the same thing with your cleans and your snatches, it's like understanding that the the power is is coming from the ground up, that you're and that's how you're able to use appropriate loads and kettlebell work. So I'm a fan of it, but I'm not a big fan of it for beginners just because the learning curve is quite large.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah, I um it's really shocking to me throughout my entire wrestling career, even as a Division I NCAA, receiving that sort of training, there was very little technique taught, even with Olympic lifting. I mean, yeah, and that's where it really started to get serious was in college, they wanted us to do all these really explosive, in my opinion, more complicated type of lifts. Um, how does one learn the best or a good technique? Um, maybe this is where some group classes could potentially be held for, or should one uh maybe find a fitness instructor or of a trainer that they connect with that go do some one-on-one maybe uh sessions with them, or how would one approach learning these movements if they do want to explore and keep it interesting, keep them consistent?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah, I think Olympic lifts are by far the most challenging to self-teach. And so I and can it be done in a group setting? I mean, CrossFit really tried to do that. I think some studios more successfully than others. But one of the issues with CrossFit, I think, is just having too many people in the class and not so you know, the the student to coach ratio is off when you're trying to teach people to do a snatch. Um so I I would, if you're interested in in Olympic lifts, I really would try to work with a coach in person who's has experience with that type of work. I think if we're thinking more kind of strength training in general, then group fitness can be a good entry point because the same way we're kind of talking about yoga, being in a group fitness class can teach you some of those basic movement patterns. They're not ideal because you often don't get great back uh exercises in a group fitness class. Often the the weights aren't heavy enough for you to do a proper row, and there's almost never any kind of vertical pull in a group fitness class because they just don't have the equipment for it. Um, but I think it can be a good, a good place to start. And certainly if you have access to and and have the money to pay for a couple of sessions with a personal trainer, that can be really valuable, especially if you're just feeling kind of overwhelmed by being in the gym and you want to boost that confidence.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Okay. Women specifically seem to be very interested in group fitness. I teach men's classes to try to get them in community. I feel like there is a benefit of the social component of doing something like an exercise together. That being said, thoughts on the popularity of things like a hot Pilates class or or even yoga, you know, these are things that women seem to be more drawn to. How effective are they? Or what are your opinions on those classes?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Well, I used to teach group fitness, so I'm coming at it from that. And I totally agree with you that it does create a sense of community. Um, it helps people push. It also gives the person an appointment. You know, they have a time where they're gonna go. And so it can help with just long-term habit building because you're you you make friends in the class, and maybe you like your instructor and you know that you're going every Wednesday at 10 a.m. or whatever it is. And so I think all those things about group fitness are good. The issue that I see specifically with women and the kind of trendy classes. So uh when when I was uh uh training in New York, like Soul Cycle was a big thing, and then Barry's boot camp was a big thing. Um, and then there were kind of boxing group fitness classes that were a thing, and it always evolves. There's like every few months or something, it will be some new approach, some new twist on group fitness. And women really gravitate towards that. The problem is if you switch up what you're doing every couple months, you're often not going to see the progress that you're hoping for because progress takes time and we need to be goal-oriented. And so if we want to look, as you said, you know, more toned, you know, we want to increase muscle size, then going to a cycling class or going to a class where you're doing a lot of, you know, rowing or sprinting, and maybe there's some dumbbells mixed in, but that's not the ideal program for your goal. And I think there are a lot of women who are also looking for group fitness classes because they want to lose weight. And what we see is exercise for weight loss when you aren't changing your diet at all. It's kind of disappointing in the results that we're getting. So I'm not against group fitness. I just wish there was more clarity around what this class will deliver. What can I expect if I come to this class every week or twice a week for the next eight weeks? And I think in some, I think some Pilates group fitness classes are really guilty of doing this, where they'll kind of promise these dramatic body recomposition kind of transformations in a short amount of time that are entirely unrealistic.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah. Um I was, yeah, feels like program hopping or class hopping is not the most effective way to go about this and getting the results you want with body composition or just overall health. Um, I also was curious, this kind of also ties into this. How much should you be um varying your exercises? Um it's it seems like uh very being very consistent with an exercise, obviously you get very fluent at that movement and you've see progress progress. That being said, you know, I could go and do the same monotony, monotonous works workout at the gym for years. Uh not many people, I think, keep their interests, maybe as much as someone like myself with that. But what's your opinion on consistency, whether it's uh yeah, lift with lift, uh strength training, and how much should we be mixing things up? And also I get the sense that I could push my uh certain exercises consistently the same exact ones to the point where I get injured. Um, is there anything to that and just mixing it up for uh avoiding injury?

SPEAKER_01 43:28

So I think as long as your technique is on point and you're not pushing the volume excessively high. You know, I know for for me, for example, if I tried to squat three times a week, I couldn't sustain that. I um but some people can. I know I've I've had clients who can squat and deadlift three times a week, no problem, and recover completely fine. So it's gonna depend on the person. But I I do think we need to understand that these Getting stronger, gaining muscle, it takes time. And so I really wouldn't want to change anything for at least eight weeks, and I'd prefer it be longer. Um, I I'd prefer it be 12, um, maybe even 16. But if you're somebody who likes variety, there are there are kind of some ways around this by which we say, all right, I'm going to keep some exercises the same for the 12 weeks, but we're going to introduce variety in maybe target rep range. So if you're doing your leg press twice a week, then maybe one session you're doing sets of six, and one session you're doing sets of 15. That can be a way to introduce variety. We could also try to have a pretty structured program for our main compound movements, our pushes, our pulls, our lunges, our hinges, but for our lateral raises and our bicep curls and tricep extensions, maybe for those, I'd say, you know, you want to use the cable attachment today, go for it. You want to use a machine tomorrow, that's fine. Like so we can introduce some variety in that way that makes the program uh feel less stale, but our foundation has that consistency built in.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Okay, that's that's very helpful. Um you brought up some uh I was curious about cardio. Where does that fit into um overall fitness? Uh, you hear a lot of people that I trust are uh into are very uh very much pushing steps and walking for low impact, like very for more for I would say fat loss or weight loss, I guess. But where where should cardio fit into one's fitness plan?

SPEAKER_01 45:58

My favorite way to approach this is to try to find something that people will enjoy and do consistently, which often is not going to look or feel like traditional structured exercise, like going on the elliptical for 30 minutes. Um and I think it's better to approach it like that because very few people will continue elliptical training for 30 minutes for months and years to come. Um, and that's really with all this stuff, it's about what we do consistently for months and years, not for the next six weeks. So I love it when people can find something that's physically active, maybe even outside, you know, hiking or biking or playing pickleball or tennis, maybe something that allows them to socialize with friends while being physically active. You know, that's certainly a win. And then I also think in addition to what we would consider, you know, cardio, we also want to think about our overall physical activity. Because again, it's not just what we're doing in that 30-minute or one hour window, but are we generally physically active in our day-to-day? And that can be more or less challenging depending on where you live. But there are things we can do repeatedly that kind of become a habit that do add up. You know, we take the stairs instead of the elevator, or we always park far away from the entrance to the store. And when we get that phone call or we listen to the podcast, we go for a walk or we walk on our, you know, if you have a walking desk treadmill or one of those walking pads or something like that, where we are just cognizant of our activity throughout the day. And that that can add up to the point where we don't necessarily need to be so stressed about fitting in our resistance sessions and our cardio sessions. And then we feel like, oh, I have to work out every single day. And that feels really overwhelming and unsustainable for people.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah, I was I was curious your opinion on some of those like walking, um, those small little treadmills that I feel like more women are shown using them. I don't know how many, uh, what the difference is in gender or not in those, or like weighted vests, it's often, it seems like the women population are into them. I've I know you've gotten a lot of questions about that in the past with weighted vests. But it sounds like some of these, even if they get you interested for some stretch of time in getting more steps, sounds like it could they could be somewhat helpful, or or um I don't know if there's a question there, but the weighted vest.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Well, the the thing with with the step count is um there's there's research here as well looking at people who really focus on the the wearables and on step counts as a goal, and it works really well for a couple of months and then it it stops working because it it's it's not really about habit building when you're you're so focused. It's kind of gamification of fitness, which is okay, but there's not enough sort of built in, I think, where the vast majority of people tend to stick with it and feel like it's enough of a goal and it's fulfilling to reach that number every single day. With something like um strength training or exercise that allows you to feel yourself getting better or improving, that could even be like improving your tennis game, for example. You know, the more you do it, the more fulfilled you are by the fact you're making progress. And that can really build in a level of adherence. And the hyper focus on the step count doesn't have that, which I think is a flaw in getting people to really stick with it as a metric. I mean, walking is great, but that's why I bring up the other things. Like if as a habit, you never take that elevator in that building and you go to that building all the time and you always take the stairs, then it's less about, oh, how let me check how many steps I've taken today, and more about, well, I always go up the stairs in that. Or whenever I drive to that store, um, I'm always parking on the other side of the parking lot and walking across because that's what I do. So if we we can build enough of those things in, then I think we are more likely to continue to do them. And that's really what matters, that we end up doing something we can adhere to and sustain in the long term. And for some people, that could be step count, but for a lot of people, it just the the that sustainability factor is an issue.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah, there's a couple of things that come up there. And one of them is I feel like a lot of guys are in this category that I then I'm guilty of this. I just kind of want to conquer all everything all at once. You get put too much on your plate all at once, and the burnout comes quickly, and then there's this yoga or yo, yo, yo-yo effect of being extremely active and then burning out or whoever, or just stopping and then getting super into it and then hitting a wall.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Yeah, you see these, you know, with those 75 hard challenges, those things like that, where oh, I'm gonna work out twice a day and I'm gonna drink all this water and I'm gonna cut out all these food groups, and I'm gonna meditate, and I'm gonna optimize my sleep. And of course that's not sustainable for any of um, we can't change a million things at once. And I think when taking on a challenge like that, although some people do it and some people enjoy it, and I'm not gonna knock it, but for most of us, we aren't creating sustainable change. And even if you do it and you get through it, my hope is that you would have kind of uh taken some things or that you're able to adopt moving forward. But I think to your point, some people are just so kind of burnt out by the end of that that they end up um instead of improving their relationship with diet and exercise, it kind of went the other direction, and that's not what we want.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah. Um do you have suggestions for recovery days or or off days, or do you does it base basically on the individual and where they feel fulfilled?

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Yeah, I think there if you're somebody who is working out two or three days a week for 30 minutes to an hour, you probably don't need a whole lot of recovery. Like, you know, just physical activity. If you're sore, then going for a walk or an easy bike ride or something can be really good for soreness. If you're newer, you're more likely to be sore. And some of that is gonna kind of go away after um a few weeks. But I think we shouldn't be so focused on the kind of recovery metrics, the way that a lot of these professional athletes are, like massage and ice bath and sauna, and if you are an athlete in season and you are competing day after day, then yes, you're gonna want to throw everything at the wall in terms of recovery because you're just trying to survive. Um, I think for most of us in the more general fitness community, then in between, if you're already doing that structured exercise, you're adhering to that program, and you're willing to do a little bit more, then I would like to splice in some days where we are doing other physically active things. So maybe that is a yoga class, maybe that is the pickleball game with friends. And so then we can kind of build it in where we're doing something active every day, but we aren't necessarily going to the gym every day.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Okay. Um, not to go all yoga on you here, but I what comes top of mind when you bring up things like these challenges, and yoga does this. There's hot yoga challenges um where you go for, I think it's 80 days straight or 30 minutes, 30 days. Um but there's a huge psychological, this is very always psychological, um, but there seems to be a very major psychological component about this. Is there something to finding a bigger reason as to like why you're working out? Or I don't want to say intention because I'm gonna like roll my eyes, but but having like a maybe just a broader picture of like, oh, this is where I think maybe a coach or a teacher does help when being like, oh, you're able to get on the floor, play with your kids, you're able to, you know, sleep better, which is creating all these other bigger, greater benefits um beyond just you know this the number on the scale. Um, is there something to having a bigger reason why you work out?

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, we would think about this as you know, your intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation, or you know, what what is the why? And if the why is something sort of very superficial uh or surface level, like the number on the scale or like fitting into a dress for a wedding, that's unlikely to be like long-term true behavior change. So if we want long-term true behavior change, then we want to kind of build our own self-efficacy. We want to know that uh I am going to continue to exercise because that's something that I do. That's part of uh what I do. It's and we we think about building that in in a way that either are other things you do in your life that you don't make a decision to do. You just do them because those are part of your day, like brushing your teeth. You don't decide whether you're gonna brush your teeth every morning, hopefully. Um, you just do, right? And so if we can make it part of our lives in that way, then that that really is a place where we're much more likely to do it long term. And that's why I really emphasize setting yourself up for something that is doable and not just doable for 30 days, but is doable uh in the long term. And of course, there are certain phases of life where maybe we ramp it up, or maybe we have to back off a little bit because work is crazy, or you have a new baby at home. And that's okay too, because once you've built it into your kind of foundational you, then you know you're gonna be able to kind of ramp it back up when that dies down.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Okay. As someone who teaches group classes uh in a predominantly women-based fields like yoga, you know, you brought up some of the messaging that is uh not helpful in supporting women. But is there any any other um aspects of messaging or fitness that is targeted towards women that is not supportive, that one should uh keep an eye on to as a blind spot? As a as selfishly as a teacher, I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Yeah, I think that uh focusing way too much on what you weigh or how you look, it can be a definite um red flag. I I'd love it for the focus to be on what you can do, because that's so empowering for for women, for everyone. But but in my experience, you know, for women, because there are so many women who enter the kind of fitness world and just being able to experience that feeling of I can do something that I couldn't do a couple of months ago. And let's think about what I might be able to do a couple months from now. And that keeps you coming back. And that's something that I wish more people would feel. And I think as you know, coaches and teachers should really try to instill that instead of these really short-term or aesthetic goals.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Yeah, I always try to bring up for students the landmark uh landmarks when they are um coming up for them. Like, oh, look, you're able to do this now. I did, and they were like, wait, I really wasn't able to touch the floor or whatever, or move in this way, or do a push-up. But I think, yeah, coaches or teachers could be a real good um motivator in that way and pointing out the more meaningful uh shifts, positive shifts there. Um is there anything else that you that is are that we should bring talk about when it comes to women's fitness? I know you could write several books about this. I know you spend your whole life and career on this, but is there anything that um that you'd like to unpack that we didn't touch on?

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Yeah, I I think there's um a lot of messaging out there that makes women feel like because you are a woman, you have to do everything differently, or because you are a perimenopausal woman, everything has changed and you must approach fitness differently. And the worst result of that kind of messaging is that people who were exercising and were doing something regularly that they enjoyed, stop doing it. And so I'm really passionate about speaking out against that because we absolutely don't want to consume any message that that tells us, you know, zone two training is is not good anymore. And so I'm just gonna stop running if you love running. And no, I'm obviously a shill for for resistance training. I want everyone to lift weights, uh, muscle is important. But if you told me that you refuse to lift weights, then I would say, I want you to do any type of exercise or physical activity that you enjoy. And that above all will improve long-term health.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

I love that. And we're I was curious, were you an athlete? What what why is weight training? Were you um did you get into that when you were younger or or what what motivated were you an athlete of some sort?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Um, I was a I was a gymnast and a dancer, and then I ran track in high school. And so fitness for me, kind of recreationally as a young adult, was always running. And then I got a stress fracture. And when you get a stress fracture, you're not supposed to put any weight on your foot. And so I was in a boot living in New York City, which was awful, um hobbling around for weeks. Um, and that was when I started lifting weights because when I tried to go back to running, I had lost all of that fitness, and it's kind of so demoralizing trying to start from square one. And so I I did some group fitness, and then I really liked the the feeling of kind of getting stronger. And so I started doing more kind of traditional resistance training, and I loved it. So I definitely didn't start from an early age.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Very cool. Well, I really appreciate you being willing to uh discuss all of these topics in a way that I could understand and listeners could get a lot from. I appreciate the amount of value you bring to the conversation every time I learn something new when I listen to you. And um today was great. I appreciate your time. Um, is there anything else that you want to put out there for folks before I let you go? Um, where could folks find you or support you and your work?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the kind words. Um, you can find me on Instagram, Dr. LaurenCS1. Um, I also have a Substack and I write with three other scientists for a publication called the Mass Research Review. And that those are kind of long-form scientific breakdowns of all sorts of health and fitness topics. So if you're interested in the that level of detail, then check out NAS.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Wonderful. I will link all of those in the show notes for folks too. And um, and Lauren, it's been a real pleasure. I I'd love to do it again soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

All right, take care.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

Thanks for tuning in. If you found my conversation with Dr. Clenzo Semple to be informative, if you learned something, if it got you thinking, please give the podcast a like, share it with a friend, and subscribe. You can find me on all social media platforms, especially Instagram at Yoga with Jake, and on my website, yoga with thejake.com. Until next time, take care of the way.