SPEAKER_00 0:00

On this episode, Golf Therapy. What is it and how does it work? Yes, you heard that correctly. Imagine going to talk to your therapist, and your therapist, well, their office is not a stuffy room where you're asked to awkwardly sit across from the therapist and painfully go through your issues. No. Instead, you are meeting at a golf stimulator. Imagine playing pebble beach and working on your swing while you chat with your therapist. I think this is a brilliant idea for many reasons, especially for guys. There's a lot of reasons why it works, and those reasons are backed by research. The man behind golf therapy is Tyler Brockbank, and he joins me today to tell me all about it. Tyler is a licensed therapist and the founder of Greencrest, where he's improving the world's mental health one individual at a time by trading the traditional clinical office for a private golf stimulator. Tyler helps people move past the stigma of therapy and into a space where they can engage comfortably in the process of personal development. I'm Jake Panasevich, and this is the Yoga with Jake podcast. How's it going? Good. Thanks. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for taking the time to chat with me today. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

No, happy to do it. I'm excited. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, me too. I uh I saw your social media as one does anymore. That's how I found you. And um just at a distance, I love what you're doing. And I really wanted to uh to connect with you because I uh I just think it's a an such a great uh idea, what you're up to. And I know it is officially master's tee off time. We've managed to schedule at the same time. So as someone who's a golf fan, okay. Okay, so so I do appreciate you taking the time. I um I was wondering if you could tell me, you know, you're pretty new to me. I was wondering if you could just tell me a little bit about your background and uh what your uh credentials are, your background, and and what you're currently up to.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, of course. Um so I have been a therapist for two and a half years. Um, I'm currently an associate clinical mental health counselor, an associate marriage and family therapist in Utah. Um so I received my bachelor's in psychology and then master's degree in marriage and family therapy with an emphasis in professional clinical counseling.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Wonderful. And what has your experience been like so far as a therapist? What um have you learned so far about what works and what doesn't, and what moved you into the current space you're in today?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah. Um so I'm a big proponent of therapy, obviously. Um I think it serves a great purpose um for a lot of people. What I've found, you know, I'll I'll just jump right into kind of what led me to the golf therapy uh program that I do now, is I've seen that there are certain people who come to therapy, and there are certain people who don't come to therapy. And those aren't, you know, there's no stereotypes or general exclusivity in either of those groups, but there are people that wouldn't consider coming to therapy and receiving that help and support and learning experience who could really benefit from it. Um, so the idea with therapy in a golf simulator, which is what I've been doing for the past six months, um, was to just open the door for those people who would need a more comfortable environment to actually work with a therapist.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Interesting. When you um say a more welcoming environment for those who maybe were reluctant for therapy, and then I know we don't want to be biased, but then you chose a golf simulator. And so I'm picturing a certain person um similar to a lot of folks like myself and um those who golf, which I think maybe stereotypically a lot of people think more so men, but do you work more exclusively with men? Do you work more uh with men? Or have you found that that's the general um client or or person that is reluctant to come to a therapy session?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

I would say that's that's the the population that I'm positioning myself to best help. Um yes, I to answer your question, I have been working, you know, my clients exclusively at Greencrest have been men. Um I do a lot of my marketing geared toward men. Um I'm of course more than open and would be happy to work with women at the golf simulator. There's a lot of women that golf, and a lot of women that maybe would could uh use that non-traditional therapy environment uh for their benefit. So this is definitely um it can be seen as something positioned for men. Um, and that's the way that you know it has been marketed, but it's definitely not uh entirely, you know there's not there's no requirement here with who can come and who can't.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Okay, I was I was curious about that. I um for folks who don't know have no idea what exactly is a golf simulator. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Um so the ones that that I work in, it's a room. Um, you know, picture even just a maybe a large office. Um the one I work in is fully private, closed in. It's got it's you know, door that you come in and out of. And really there's a projector screen on the front wall, and the floor there is is artificial turf. It's simulate grass. Um, there's a launch monitor. I use a track man simulator, which is widely known in the golf world. Um, they use that a lot on the PK tour. But all it does is, you know, you there's golf balls, and you bring your clubs in, or your clients are welcome to use mine. And we we do the full golf swing, you hit the ball into the projector screen, and then the launch monitor tracks all of the movements. The technology is phenomenal. I can't describe everything that it does, but it gives a lot of data, a lot of feedback, and then actually, you know, simulates the ball flight on the projector screen. So you hit the ball into the projector, and then on the digital interface, it shows the ball flight and where it where it flies on the course or the range.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Okay. And are you just like on a simulating a driving range? Or when someone comes in to work with you, could they like play a round of golf? Or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah, so uh everything is available for the client to use. We, you know, and it depends on their preference and what they're feeling up to for that day. I would say, you know, I I typically tend to start out each session with the client just hitting on the driving range. They can hit whatever they want. They can stay there for the full hour if they'd like, or you know, I offer if they'd like, they can hop over to a course and lay around at Pebble Beach or St. Andrews or wherever. Um, and that again is very realistic. You play a full, you know, whole or nine whole round of golf on the the course.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, that's that's so awesome. Do you uh do folks end up staying at their therapy session through uh a whole round longer than then maybe a regular session would go? Do you find folks spending four or five hours taking their time golfing? I mean, if if I'm if I'm playing, this is gonna take at least five hours for me to get around, and the way I spray the ball, just especially if it's pebble beach.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, that that is tricky. Um yeah, so my sessions are limited to the hour time frame. Um and it really depends. I played with someone just a couple days ago. Um, we played Pebble Beach actually of all the courses, and that one is difficult. Um, he got through nine holes of it in an hour. The simulator quickens the pace of play because you know it knows exactly where your ball ended up. You don't have to walk and and go on a search and rescue hunt through the woods. It just gets you there set up and you just you you you hit. So it goes much faster than a typical round of golf outside.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So so interesting. I um do you find uh what sort of boundaries does this help um you break through as a therapist? You know, I'm picturing a lot of myself included, the dread of going to therapy is an uncomfortable room with an uncomfortable couch or chair, kind of awkwardly stumbling through personal um difficult topics, sitting eye to eye with somebody. Um, I've been told by some psychologists that this is more challenging for men. Um, I've heard folks like Richard Reeves speak to something that he refers to as shoulder-to-shoulder therapy, where you're doing something, and for guys, there's something about that um activity that helps you, you know, just be more willing and open to discuss more challenging, uh difficult topics. But what's your experience been like with the simulator?

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yeah, absolutely. Because there is, it all goes back to the research, right? There's there's very well-known research out there, and even you don't have to be a psychologist to know that this is true, that men tend to, you know, conversate together, shoulder to shoulder, side by side, and a lot of times with a shared activity mixed in there too. Um women, they meet, you know, and you can just uh observe conversations. They typically stand and face each other and look themselves, you know, in the eye. Um but men, especially, you know, natural, comfortable conversation typically happens exactly like you said, shoulder to shoulder. So that's exactly where this golf um simulator therapy uh comes into play, where the whole idea of therapy is for the client to be uh comfortable. And you know, there's parts of therapy that require you to be uncomfortable. That's where change happens. But in the in the overall sense of it, we want the client to feel comfortable opening up, sharing whatever it is that's on their mind or their heart that day with the therapist. Because the research again shows the number one predictor of effective therapy is the relationship between the client and therapist and a safe, comfortable environment.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Uh I'm curious, how does that work? How do you make sure that you're both developing this like no trust factor with your client as a therapist while having uh fun activity, something they love in the background? You know, does it is it like a round of golf where maybe you uh converse and ease into the conversation at the T box? And then as the round progresses, you know, you talk in between shots, or or how does that how does that could you walk me through what that would look like, like a regular session?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah, absolutely. And golf itself lends itself very well to conversation. You know, the act of golf, you're physically swinging the club and hitting the ball for really a handful of seconds over the course of an hour. Um, but it's enough to just provide that kind of background activity where guards can come down, vulnerability can come out. Um so a typical session could take on a number of forms. Uh what's funny is I've had more than one instances of a session where the client hit a few balls on the range to begin with, and then for the next 55 minutes just stood there with me standing there as well, and and we just talked, and no more golf was done in the session. But I think even just being in that environment, you know, having the club in his hand, it just allowed for you know very comfortable conversations. So really the golf served its purpose in that session. It was there, he was comfortable, and you know, he could swing the club back and forth in his hands as he just talked, um, kind of mindlessly doing that activity in the background, stimulates movement, you know, and and just provides that comfortable environment. So some sessions, to be completely honest, looked exactly like that, where they they really just talk. Um and then others, you know, we're we're golfing the entire time and between swings, we're having conversations. I may be, you know, sketching some ideas out on my iPad, drawing, you know, the reactive cycle or whatever uh therapeutic modality I'm going with, you know, the ABCs of CBT. We can, you know, uh talk about that exactly like you said, just between shots or standing there on the the the T-box.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

That's it's great. I um now did does a regular therapy session here end with some actionable uh tools for the client, like point A to point B. How does this work with therapy for for men? Um do you find any anything particularly um effective for guys? Like I I think of a lot of guys, they like a mission or a goal or an aim. You know, do you end a round or a therapy session with some sort of uh homework basically or things to aim for? How does that how does that work with with that?

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah. I typically like to provide some sort of valuable takeaway in each session. And that's not uh you know a strict rule that I hold myself to because there is a level of flexibility that I think should be involved in every therapy session or every client. Um but I've found that it's most effective when the client at least has an idea of what to think about or what specific thing to work on or what specific thing to practice that week when it comes to relationships or just self-talk or um communication styles, anything like that. So I would say there's definitely specific tidbits that that do come up where the client then takes that on their own for the rest of the week until they come back next time and we we kind of revisit that and adjust some things or build on that in the next round, in the next session.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Okay, I I have some friends and even myself that as my golf round progresses, I get progressively more frustrated. Do you ever do you ever find that uh that folks get annoyed with their themselves or their golf game? And does it inspire any sort of response like emotionally that you have to reel them in? Or vice versa. Do you feel you know if the golf game's going well, their mood shifts? Or have you noticed any of that?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

I would say, you know, it's never gotten to that level where there's you know some serious emotional reactions happening during the session. Um if that were the case, that would be great uh experience to practice and put some things into place that we've talked about. Um typically, really, the golf takes kind of a back seat. You know, it's it's difficult to really communicate because um and there's different things we can do, you know, if if someone's and I work with all range of golf levels. I myself am very average, not an average good golfer, just an average golfer. So I, you know, if there's someone that's more of a beginner, we can do other things. There's other games or or uh activities we can do on the track man that lend themselves a little bit more to the beginner level. Or, you know, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be playing Pebble Beach with any client because that's a challenging one that could definitely bring up some frustration. So I try to kind of in the background manage that as much as I can. Um but really even in the golf round, if things aren't going well, there's things we can do. We can, you know, drop a mulligan or whatever it is. That it's very low pressure. Uh no one I've seen is is getting frustrated uh with the golf itself. But that's a great question. Uh yeah, because I can definitely that I imagine people are uh you know thinking that could be the case, but I I just haven't found that to be the case so far.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Okay. You find anybody come to revisit you to work on their golf game more than the therapy? Do you ever find it?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

No, I actually um you know they would be if they really wanted to work on their golf game, there's probably better use of their time and money than coming to see me because I'm not gonna help very much with that.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Nice. Um, what what common issues are you finding or what common, I don't want to say issues, um, challenges that are are you finding are most common amongst the men that visit you?

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah, I would say, you know, and and just speaking generally, because every case, of course, is unique, but there tend to be relationship uh challenges that come up that's oftentimes a focus. And with my marriage and family therapy background, I I'm more than happy to engage with that. I I truly enjoy working with couples when I do, you know, at you know, with my traditional therapy work. Oftentimes in the the Green Crest Simulator, I'm working with just the the husband or the man, the male partner in the relationship. Um so I uh thoroughly enjoy that and can see some really positive results in relationship counseling with the individual. Um other than that, it's just uh general uh men's issues is the title, right? There's I see a number of young men, say between age 18 and 25, just navigating that phase of life, figuring out career and and goals and and purpose, which I'm I've been seeing more and more of um lately for whatever reason. There sends there there are certain trends that we can pick up as therapists, just in the the clients that come in week to week. Um but recently, just speaking of the last month or two, uh, I've seen a number of uh clients, individuals that would fit into that category of you know 18 to 25 figuring out a a large life transition phase.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Okay. And they come to therapy to find some directionality in their in their lives then and yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Kind of some yeah, exactly that direction, support, motivation, uh, drive. We see a lot of people feeling stuck, you know, in making decisions, uh deciding for themselves what path to pursue. Um so really it's uh yeah, there's a number of things, and and each individual navigates that differently, but overall yeah, looking for some direction and some progress.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Wonderful. Do you do you um ever get pushback for opening up um Golf therapy. Does uh any other therapist um push back in saying that it's not real therapy? Or um have you gotten any negative feedback about this? Um I'm trying to think in my field, you know, taking yoga outside of the studio sometimes is viewed as being uh a negative for some folks for whatever reason, but kind of meeting people where they're at, it seems to be very effective. But uh what's been the the response? I worried about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I really did. I I I worried deeply what people would think. Um and the truth is there has been you know almost nothing but full support and people embracing this idea. It's really blown me away um to see the support that this has gotten from from therapists and people everywhere. Very rarely, I mean, I could maybe count on one hand the number of times that there's been a negative comment uh about that. And maybe I just am filtering through these in my mind, but I think genuinely um therapists themselves are being very supportive. They understand the need to meet people where they're at. They understand the need for men to receive therapy, um, and they understand the effectiveness of adding an activity to therapy. You know, this is similar, but different, of course, to play therapy. That's been studied and proven very effective for decades now, um, particularly with kids, young populations, or people with ADHD. But really, this I'm not doing anything too unorthodox. You know, there's uh there's plenty of evidence out there that combining an activity with therapy can be effective, especially for some individuals.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Great. I I was gonna say I I have heard about this amongst children. I didn't know that that was called play therapy. Um is this a common thing? Like do you is there other folks doing activities along side therapy like golf? Like, is this a unique activity or is this common? I saw something come on my radar, maybe because I started following you, but um it was skydive. I don't I did not open up, it was actually an email, but but um I did not open up the email because I'm but it's it literally said skydive therapy. I don't know, I don't know if that's that involved, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

I I've never heard about that. Um I personally do not know of anyone else who's a therapist meeting with clients in a golf simulator. I do know of therapists who have met clients um on a golf course and have just kind of rode along with them as they've played around. There are plenty of therapists out there that do equestrian therapy. You're working with horses or you know, other animals. Plenty of therapists do play therapy with kids, and that could look like playing a game even on the on the floor of your therapist's office, playing Uno or whatever it might be. Um kids, you know, play on sand tables. That's the the field of play therapy is very common, um, especially with child therapists. That's I mean, you'll see that anywhere. Um, but then there are other non-traditional, I might call them, approaches to therapy, like you know, going and playing a round of golf outside on a true course, um, skydiving therapy. I've never heard of that. Um the thing is, I think there is a lot of room for this approach to be adopted, especially in other activities. Um, of course, don't lend themselves very well to uh conversations and to therapy, but anything, you know, I I think of pottery, for example. You could absolutely do something like that um with your therapist alongside. And in the comments that I've received from people, you know, and they've come across my page obviously, and they themselves comment that they've brought in coloring books to their therapy session and just ask their therapist, hey, is it okay if I uh sketch or doodle over here while we're talking? And the therapists, from what I understand, have been receptive to that and have agreed to to allow the clients to do that. Um, other people have commented on my videos, a few other examples. Someone mentioned once they had a therapist when they were in high school who would play video games with them. Um there's other people who mentioned that their therapists would uh take them on walks around outside. Uh so there's plenty of plenty of examples that I've seen of people doing kind of a similar approach. There's definitely some things to be careful about um with confidentiality, of course, especially if you're out in public. Um you can't guarantee as a therapist that you know no one will see you or no one will overhear your conversation. So there's definitely some things to be watchful about. Um, and that's why, again, the golf simulator lends itself so well to this, because it's a private environment. There's the shared activity that allows for therapy to happen alongside it. But anyway, that's a few examples that I've I've seen uh of therapists kind of taking a different side-by-side activity-based approach.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

That's that's very cool. I um you brought up you know privacy. I uh I feel like especially folks in more rural areas, I know Utah is a big state. There's a lot of there's some bigger cities, a lot of of a lot of small towns. And um, I know where I grew up, like super very rural, um, where it's you bring up like the stigma of going to therapy for men. Some everybody knows what you're what you're driving, which vehicle is yours. Everybody knows if you're parked in that parking lot. I uh I was curious, you know, what are you how does privacy work or how any suggestions on how like therapists could work not work around work with that? Especially I'm thinking of folks who are more in so uh such rural areas. I know um like we're meeting now, tele, telehealth. I think a lot of people um bring up that or these the apps, like um what's the very popular one? Headspace, not Headspace, BetterHelp, Better Health Space, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah, there's quite a few of those virtual providers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah, I just curious your opinion on those platforms. My experience has not been the best. However, I um, you know, kind of the availability of the person I was working with didn't work and then it did, and then it was felt like there was no progress there. Um it I don't know if there was something missing in the in-person uh interaction, but I guess there's two questions there. The the privacy question, um suggestions and maybe how to work with that, and then um curious your thoughts on um the apps and more telehealth for mental health.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah. Um first with Greencrest itself, the the client because I understand the concern of parking in a therapy office parking lot or being seen walking in, you know, next door, there might be a dentist, and you could run into just someone you know from your neighborhood, you know, going to the dentist office there next door while you're going into the therapy office. It's these things do come up, you know, in in people's minds when they're thinking about booking or thinking about attending a session. So at Greencrest, you've I mean you park in it's it's kind of an office building with multiple different offices and companies there, with the golf simulator on the first floor, and you you park and you get your clubs out of your trunk and you're walking inside. It does not look like you're going to the therapy appointment. Uh, I don't think anyone would have any idea uh that that's where you were going, um, which hopefully eases some of the concern uh about that about that issue. Because that is it's something that that does prevent some people from attending therapy. I understand that. Uh to your question of the online therapy platforms, uh they I think are serving a great purpose. Um it's again improving the accessibility of therapy, I think would be their mission. Um I've heard I've heard mixed things, uh, to be honest. And I'm not an expert on this uh subject at all. I've heard mixed things from the therapist standpoint, um, about pay and and other issues that are brought up with with those platforms. From the client side, though, I I think it works. I think it can be an excellent resource. And and really this is the thing, like any any sort of therapy, any sort of therapist, any approach to therapy, it could be perfect, could be exactly what one individual needs, and it could be completely off the mark for another person, right? And so I think the more that we as therapists can provide options for the clients, I think the better the world's mental health will be. So I see that the online therapy platforms fitting in exactly that. They're providing an option that for some people works better than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Interesting. Okay. And with um with uh the golf therapy, how has it been received so far? It sounds like you're relatively new in the in opening up, but it it looks like you're hitting the ground running. Um is it as well received as you had hoped or or how's it going?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yeah, it's it's it's much better received than I had hoped. Um looking back, I posted my first TikTok in September 2025, and it was just a few photos and some text on the screen explaining who I was and what I was gonna do with this golf therapy idea. And just over the weekend, I posted that, received over a hundred thousand views, hundreds of comments, likes, and shares. Um everyone was very supportive, you know, asking, can you come to my area? You know, I'm not in Utah, but my partner would love to come. You know, I I wish there was something like this in Miami or Chicago or LA or wherever it might be. Um, and that hasn't slowed down over the last six months. There have been many, you know, dozens, hundreds of people have reached out and said, I I really want this for myself or for my partner or my spouse um in my area. And and so I'm working on that from a business standpoint. Um, there is room for expansion. And I've I've been recently kind of tracking that. I set up a form on my website to request a green crest location in you know uh your local area, and have received uh a lot of form submissions there. So I'm working on just structuring that from a business standpoint because it seems like there's interest there. There seems like there's a lot of potential and a lot of good that can be done with expanding this approach to more people across the country.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

That's wonderful. Do you run into legal issues with that? Do you have to be working with uh licensed therapists in your state? Or is that how that how that works? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Um so that's correct. Therapy, therapy licenses are based on the state that you're in. So I obviously have my licenses in Utah, and that means I'm only able to provide therapy to clients who are physically in Utah. Um so that yeah, adds a level of complexity to this that I'm I'm navigating, you know, legally and clinically right now, but um figuring out a way because there are therapists interested also in other states of you know replicating this model.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Okay, I I've noticed that there's um more and more momentum towards providing um men's specialized mental health uh care. And it seems as though there are some some folks developing uh like a list or uh uh different platforms for folks to find men's-specific therapy. Um so do you think the field itself is got some momentum, like for someone who's a young therapist or coming out of school, is it worth specializing in uh men's mental health, or is that even a thing, or is that more of a branding?

SPEAKER_01 36:29

I would say it's definitely an option and a good option. If you know, speaking to a young therapist or someone even in school, if they feel well positioned to work with a certain population, and not just men, but just any any specialty, um, I think that could be extremely beneficial for the community that that they serve and and for their career itself. Um there are certain things you can do to specialize in a certain um uh mental health illness or population or anything like that or treatment modality. Um and then, like you said, you're you're correct. It's a lot of it is branding and marketing um towards a specific niche if you're interested in that. Um but there is there's a lot of opportunity there for young therapists or any therapist to choose a specific niche, and that's actually recommended, um, just to provide higher level care, to have more specific experience that you can better serve a specific group.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Yeah, that makes sense. Do you have any other um tricks when or tools you use when speaking with men? Do they use different language or do you get more traction um with other techniques with men compared to uh but compared to women?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

I would say really it it just comes down to the therapist's ability to connect with the client and the client's ability to connect with the therapist. Um and I've worked with you know countless women, countless couples, countless men, obviously as individuals. And it it really just comes down to the individual. Uh, you know, whether they whether they resonate with humor or or not. There's a lot that the therapist, there's a lot that I'm uh kind of managing in the background and just the way that I'm presenting in a session with someone. And this could be uh, you know, in back-to-back sessions, I could be, it could be completely different. And that's not to say I'm being inauthentic, but I'm just I'm I'm connecting with the individual in the way that they would prefer. You know, I'm still being myself, but I'm allowing that natural connection to to build in ways that would most invite the client to also feel comfortable and to be themselves as well in that session.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Okay. And so you're reading the individual and then kind of taking it the direction you feel is most appropriate. Okay. All right. Um do I think a lot of guys worry that once they start therapy, they will be there forever. Um, how does that work with therapy? Could you provide some clarity around is there like an end point? I think a lot of folks want to know that at some point we've got these landmarks to hit, and then maybe we're done for with therapy, and then there'll be stages of life, maybe season of life something will happen, or you might have to revisit it. Or how does that that cycle work?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Yeah, again, another thing to have in the back of your mind as a therapist, because there is a need, I think, for therapy to end at a certain time, at a certain point. And it that looks different again, you know, if it's a full stop, you know, we we don't schedule any more sessions for the near future unless something comes up. Um and we kind of set guidelines to say, hey, these may be some warning signs that if you're seeing these, maybe reach back out. I'd love to reconnect and continue working with you. It could be that, you know, your the client feels that they're at a good spot, they've learned some skills and improved in the ways that they wanted to. Um, we could slow down at that point and just provide kind of maintenance sessions every month, every other month, or however frequent they would like. Um, but I do think it's important to be working toward a goal in the therapy process. You know, if we're I think that's the role therapists are playing, that they work alongside the client in certain phases of that client's life. And and it's not necessarily that they're you know, they're not going to be in the same phase of life forever, and the therapist may or may not be needed um forever. But I think again, that's another thing to have in mind of kind of analyzing the progress being made if we reach the goals that were set early on in the therapy, um, and then an ability to kind of continue with less support uh from the therapist.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Great. And do you feel like the stigma around therapy for men is is being uplifted at all? Have we seen any progression with that?

SPEAKER_01 41:53

I think so, definitely. Um there's a lot of there's a lot of attention that's being given to therapy as a whole and just mental health. And I think the the world as a whole or society is becoming more comfortable with the idea of therapy. It's becoming, from what I've seen, far less stigmatized. Um, still a lot of work to be done, still a lot of work for, you know, uh still a lot of progress that could be made to uh help certain individuals, you know, uh overcome that stigma. Um but yeah, I would say as a whole, mental health and therapy has has come into the spotlight in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah, I think I think there's such a need there. There's so many people are struggling. It's it's had to um think thankfully come more towards the forefront. Um do you have any um plans of expanding where you're at or is or is sessions more just one-on-one? Or would you ever do like a multi-simulator situation? Is that ever part of therapy, like group therapy, or like I'm thinking maybe a golf outing potentially?

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Yeah, with like multiple multiple clients there.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Yeah, yeah, is that a thing, or is that potentially uh a way to uh deliver therapy, golf therapy?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Definitely there, you know, there's there are intensives or retreats uh, you know, that that certainly happen that that I think could be a good avenue um for this niche, you know. Absolutely. You know, I could go and golf with a group of three guys, you know, make a foursome and and go play around and talk about mental health, do a seminar maybe afterward or following the round. Um yeah, who knows? There's a lot of a lot of opportunity um to just provide services in in kind of a non-traditional way that that works for people.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

It's great. I I I feel like a lot of folks associate um guys golfing with other bad behavior. Like right, you go to around the golf you might be gone for five and a half six hours and probably have drinks with your buddies and potentially gamble and potentially yeah and you're not you're not at home or at work.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

You know but a lot of times we think of this happening on the weekend when they're at home and could be with their wife or their kids and doing housework and things like that other important things. Yeah. So there is there is some negative connotations around golf which I completely understand. Luckily you know the the thing I point to is my the green crest sessions are only an hour. So you can get your golf fixed in if you want to call it that for the week and work on yourself, work on your relationship, communication, mental health overall um and then you know go about the rest of your life and meet the other priorities that you have outside of golf.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Awesome. I was curious how you tackle um maybe those stereotypes that come up with the golf and men um guys must love you if you're able to erase that or at least temper that maybe negative stereotype both around golf while they work on themselves in a positive way. It seems like it's such a great fit. I was like so excited to see someone doing this that it's uh I really really am grateful that I was able to talk to you about it. I um I was curious if there's anything else you would like to put out there for folks or or unpack if there's anything I had a list of questions I believe I believe we touched on an all of them I think but um but yeah is there anything else that you wanted to put out there for folks um no uh you know I think well let me see I think for just getting to my purpose maybe as a therapist or what what drew me into this field is it really comes down to two things.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Number one is I I hate to see individual suffering and there's a lot of that going on um you know and there's some things that I as a therapist can do to help support in those cases. Sometimes there's not um but it's hard to see because I think really looking around there's a lot of individual suffering. People are lonely people are sad people are anxious people are depressed and that really motivates me to provide the therapy services that I do. And then the second is I I personally feel that there's a a certain sanctity maybe to a family and relationships between spouses, parents and children that I personally enjoy and wish more people could enjoy at the same level. Because I think that again in my work I I see that being lost in some ways. In society as a whole or just in certain individuals' lives that they aren't able to you know receive what a family can provide and should provide. And so I think any work that I can do to to help uh people access that I think is is a really important and and critical mission right now in the world. So I uh really appreciate the conversation today. This was this was excellent you this was a great conversation you asked some great questions and um I really enjoyed talking about it. I guess I can I'm sure you'll you you can link it but I can tell people uh where to find me I'm on Instagram and TikTok and online you can visit my website I'll do my best to respond uh to anyone who reaches out comments or DMs me I'm falling behind slowly but I'm doing my best to to reach out personally um I don't have anyone else doing that for me I will be the one to to respond uh to personal comments or messages so um and I will say I'm just I'm very grateful for all the support that this has received thank you Jake for having me on um helping to get the word out I really appreciate it yeah it's it's really my pleasure uh Tyler and could you put can you just say what your handle is for folks I will also link it in the show notes but it greencrest yes so on Instagram it's greencrest underscore club okay excellent on on TikTok it's greencrest club okay and the website is greencrestclub.com beautiful um yeah I do hope there's something like this available for folks all over I I I think it's a wonderful thing you've got and it's it's really interesting and um I think you're gonna help you've already helped so many people um but yeah if you'd like to uh I'd love to circle back and hear how's how it's going and how you're doing with everything.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

And uh if there's anything I can do to help get the word out and support don't don't be a stranger don't hesitate. This is this is really cool what you're doing Tyler. I love it. Great thank you. Thanks take care. Thank you you too thanks for tuning in. If you found my conversation with Tyler to be helpful and informative if it got you thinking please give the podcast a like leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share it with everyone you know you can find me on the social media at Yoga with Jake especially on Instagram and on my website yogawithjake.com. Until next time take care of the